Curse

dr love · Mar 10, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

i like runnin iway. you only need the backline to be decent. the frontline can be a bunch of noobs and you'll still slowly win.

Jbrown · Mar 24, 2009, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Thing is though, in order for pve'ers to get into groups or guilds they need to look like the rest of us did. They can either find a couple of friends who have the same interests and form up a guild and learn together or they can just ask to join high rank groups saying that they are willing to learn. My guild has done this with several people and gotten r0's up to r7-8's, not because we farmed it for them but because they got better.

Other thing pve'ers forget is that vent and mic is pretty key in any organized group. They should consider getting it first before they even try HA.

bitchbar player · Mar 24, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

looks balanced enough to me, no heroes, normal monks, dom mes, non gimmick frontline.

TheHaxor · Mar 24, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom Bocca

looks balanced enough to me, no heroes, normal monks, dom mes, non gimmick frontline.

lol? no one understands the meaning of balanced apparently

at best that makes it not a gimmick, although i'm sure its overloaded with AoE so it's still borderline gimmicky

Krill · Mar 24, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

Just a bit more defensive than our old balanced with a OoS rit because now PnH is kinda needed. Still makes it a balanced.

I'm just curious what's wrong with this backline:

[build prof=Ne/Ri Sou=12+1+2 Res=12][Icy Veins][Signet of Lost Souls][Foul Feast][Weapon of Warding (PvP)][Weapon of Shadow][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Death Pact Signet (PvP)][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me Pro=12+1+1 Div=11+1 Ins=6][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Spirit Bond][Shield of Absorption][Aura of Stability][Peace and Harmony][Deny Hexes][Channeling][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me Hea=12+1+1 Div=10+1 Ins=8][Patient Spirit][Dwaynas Kiss][Infuse Health][Heal Party][Cure Hex][Healers Boon][Auspicious Incantation][Channeling][/build]

(whatever infuser you prefer)

PnH prot is pretty common in GvG...why is there such an aversion to it in HA? Life Sheath and RC are great skills but you lose so much running a PnH support.

Arya Nibelrund · Mar 24, 2009, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Nothing wrong with those bars. I don't see how it is superior to a 3 monks backline, considering you don't bring a second aura/SoA/make haste/soc/fall back.
I don't have anything against PnH, I think it's even too good. I'm against the fact that you have to bring it because of this crap meta.

Krill · Mar 24, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

I don't see how it is superior to a 3 monks backline, considering you don't bring a second aura/SoA/make haste/soc/fall back.

It's still a pretty defensive support but you have IV for spikes and more choice in weapon spells than the one you get with an E/Rt.

Going with a whole team build:

[build prof=W/E Axe=12+1+2 Str=8+1 Air=10][Eviscerate][Executioners Strike][Agonizing Chop][Bulls Strike][Frenzy][Rush][Conjure Lightning][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=W/P Str=12+1+1 Ham=12+1 ][Magehunters Smash][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bulls Strike][Flail][Enraging Charge][Song of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=E/P Fir=12+1+1 Ene=8+1 Comma=10][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinais Heat][Rodgorts Invocation][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Fire Attunement][Make Haste][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Ne/E Dea=12+1+1 Sou=8+1 Ear=10][Tainted Flesh][Rotting Flesh][Deathly Swarm][Well of the Profane][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward Against Foes][Grasping Earth][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Me/Ri Dom=12+1+1 Ins=10+1 Fas=8+1 Res=2][Psychic Distraction][Cry of Frustration][Power Drain][Diversion][Shame][Shatter Enchantment][Inspired Enchantment][Flesh of my Flesh (PvP)][/build]
[build prof=Ne/Ri Sou=12+1+2 Res=12][Icy Veins][Signet of Lost Souls][Foul Feast][Weapon of Warding][Weapon of Shadow][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Death Pact Signet][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me Pro=12+1+1 Div=11+1 Ins=6][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Spirit Bond][Shield of Absorption][Aura of Stability][Peace and Harmony][Deny Hexes][Channeling][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me Hea=12 Div=10+1 Ins=8][Patient Spirit][Dwaynas Kiss][Infuse Health][Heal Party][Cure Hex][Healers Boon][Auspicious Incantation][Channeling][/build]

To me I look at that build and it will pressure and spike a lot better than the current builds with a support PnH monk, and still have adequate hex removal / defense. LC, hexways that came before it and palm sins are shitty but there's got to be other options than just running a lot of defense and a PnH support...

Arya Nibelrund · Mar 24, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

That's how I see it: IV is the only dmg skill on the rit, everything else is pure defense/e-management. I'd give 1 single damage skill away for a whole more efficient backline. A 3rd monk with PnH and make haste gives you a huge advantage in relic run maps, allowing to split the prot monk where he's needed. Having para shouts on a monk frees up a spot on ele's bar for a damage skill for example, so you're pretty much even. LS or RC are so good, you'll feel the difference not having them. Basically, given the current meta PnH is almost a must. If you decide to take it it's much better to have a 3 monk backline. Gives you more flexibility and doesn't have a negative impact on damage compared to your build. That said, I think back with sadness to those times when so much hex removal wasn't needed.
Btw, I'd take LC over tainted any other day.

Reverend Dr · Mar 24, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Monking in these new three monk backlines is the easiest thing ever. I'm bad at monk. My friend, who is worse than me, and myself often just go and monk for pugs. As a part of a three monk backline we keep up teams for very long times, far longer than we should. I'm talking 10-15 minutes in a randomway versus a decent team. We also usually run non-standard builds: Lod/Infuse with disciplined stance or Aura of Faith with Dark escape.

Then again I don't find this type of attitude towards backlines unexpected considering the general attitude towards GW today. Most of the builds in HA require little more effort than finding a target and clicking buttons. Why not extend this to the backline? Hell not very long ago on this forum the general advice given to a prot monk was for them to "red bar."

Krill · Mar 25, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

I Agree that the need for so much hex removal because of all these retarded hex buffs severely limits build variety, but there's still room for alternatives outside a 3 monk backline. Maybe changing your whole backline to accommodate an OoS /w channeled strike or IV support isn't always going to be worth it, but it can be the difference between getting kills and 15+ minute matches.

Always liked IV because it has a tendency help steamroll, no idea why it fell out of use because FF on that bar can be just as broken as PnH.

Reverend Dr · Mar 25, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Here is why the new monk backline is such a bad thing in HA even when it is compared to the 3 monk backlines of SB/Word/RC.

This is the current:

[peace and harmony][heavens delight][divine healing][deny hexes][make haste][fall back][song of concentration][resurrection signet]
[life sheath][spirit bond][guardian][shield of absorption][aura of stability][holy veil][shielding hands][channeling]
[healers boon][infuse health][patient spirit][dwaynas kiss][heal party][spotless mind][draw conditions][channeling]

now lets remove the skills that didn't exist, or didn't exist in their current format back during SB/word/RC's era

[no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][resurrection signet]
[no skill][spirit bond][guardian][no skill][no skill][holy veil][shielding hands][channeling]
[no skill][infuse health][no skill][dwaynas kiss][heal party][no skill][draw conditions][channeling]

That's a motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing powercreep. Every elite and one and whole bar gone. Right now those 3 monks in the backline have enough prot/heal to keep up with a 4 monk backline of yesteryear and most teams still take another defensive character on top of the 3 monks. Running three monks right now, is heavy defense.

Killed u man · Mar 25, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

The worst thing is you still see teams whiping in under 2 minutes... That goes to show how bad people have become. LC and PS is ALOT of pressure, agreed, but with 5 defensive casters, it's HYSTERICAL to watch teams collapse in under 2 minutes.

Then again, looking closer at the Monks, I see why. Not going to call names, but certai individuals on these forums that portait themselves as "sick" players effing suck in game.

Today, observed a Monk for a top 100 guild (which does nothing but farm with gwen-way, and then actually has members bragging about beating people on these forums). He didn't swap once from his prot staff. (Atleast he was on he staff, I've seen a top 20 gvg dom mesmer on a 40/40 curses set an intire match. We all know him)
He was red-barring all the way. Using spirit bond after a warrior unloaded. A BB sin ran up to him, he just stands there. Doesn't guardian himself, doesn't swap to shield, etc... (They won non-the-less, as I said, with gwen and 4 more defensive casters you have to TRY to loose)

Bars have become redicilous, I agree (Atleast I played during the golden ages, so I actually know what I speak off), but a R10-11 player, or even a top 100 GvG doesn't even compare to a R6/top500 average player 2.5 years ago...

Players becoming INCREDIBLY dumb doesn't really help anything either. Just 3 days ago, I had a R9 gwen-wayer who didn't even know what "all shield sets" means. Yes, I had to explain to him how to make every armor +10 set, rank 9 ffs...

Krill · Mar 25, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Here is why the new monk backline is such a bad thing in HA even when it is compared to the 3 monk backlines of SB/Word/RC.

This is the current (fixed):

[weapon of warding][weapon of shadow][protective was kaolai][life][tease][power drain][drain enchantment][flesh of my flesh]
[peace and harmony][heavens delight][divine healing][deny hexes][make haste][fall back][song of concentration][resurrection signet]
[life sheath][spirit bond][guardian][shield of absorption][aura of stability][holy veil][power drain][channeling]
[word of healing][infuse health][patient spirit][dwaynas kiss][cure hex][power drain][mantra of flame][channeling]

^ more like that tbh, it's absolutely retarded. Since the PS was nerfed a bit you now see a lot more WE and AoL derv shit too so you can run this kind of defense and still maybe get a kill after an hour of furious button mashing.

TheHaxor · Mar 25, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Today, observed a Monk for a top 100 guild (which does nothing but farm with gwen-way, and then actually has members bragging about beating people on these forums). He didn't swap once from his prot staff. (Atleast he was on he staff, I've seen a top 20 gvg dom mesmer on a 40/40 curses set an intire match. We all know him)
He was red-barring all the way. Using spirit bond after a warrior unloaded. A BB sin ran up to him, he just stands there. Doesn't guardian himself, doesn't swap to shield, etc... (They won non-the-less, as I said, with gwen and 4 more defensive casters you have to TRY to loose)

You forgot about the assassin with the Tengu Mask.

I'm glad you're so upset that you feel the need to watch our matches to try to find mistakes to shit talk about. Why not comment on the matches where we farmed teams in under 2 minutes?

By the way I'm pretty sure 2 frontline, an LC, a fire ele, a RoJ smite monk with SoH, a gwen, and 2 monks doesn't equate to 5 defensive characters.

The only question I have for you is: 1-10?

Killed u man · Mar 25, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

I'm glad you're so upset that you feel the need to watch our matches to try to find mistakes to shit talk about. Why not comment on the matches where Gwen farmed teams in under 2 minutes?

Fix'ed

12378

Reverend Dr · Mar 25, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

@arienrhode

okay lets use that
First bar is irrelevant, as while the rit skills were in play (in some stronger form) the real strength of that bar came from the AI getting energy back on recharge from Tease (not in game) power drain, and drain enchant which just cannot be duplicated by a player.
[no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill][resurrection signet]
[no skill][spirit bond][guardian][no skill][no skill][holy veil][power drain][channeling]
[no skill][infuse health][no skill][dwaynas kiss][power drain][no skill][mantra of flame][channeling]

My original point still stands.

TheHaxor · Mar 25, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Fix'ed

12378

Last time I checked we do just as well when a real person plays that bar.

sounds like u mad. 1-10?

bitchbar player · Mar 26, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

oke i count 5 defensice characters for sure. 2 monk. gwen. lc(fainth and graping, foes i presume) smite monk.

Killed u man · Mar 26, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom Bocca

oke i count 5 defensice characters for sure. 2 monk. gwen. lc(fainth and graping, foes i presume) smite monk.

Same, I don't get why people don't understand they ARE running 5 defensive casters...

As Grom said:

LC: Snares, Faint and coverhexes.
Smite Monk: Smite MONK (or gwen)
Gwen: Defensive shutdown + Insane prots (or smite monk)
PnH: No need to explain how the Mo/P is defence
2 Monks...

1 + 1 (either gwen or smitemonk) + 1 + 2 = ?

Don't skip math class for GW haxxor, it's not worth it

Reverend Dr · Mar 26, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Same, I don't get why people don't understand they ARE running 5 defensive casters...

Because of the shit win conditions in HoH. Before they changed the conditions you only had to hold off a gank for at most 2 minutes (well, usually). Now you are often going to have to hold them off for a full match.

If anything the post-nightfall cesspool has taught us:
More defense = playing to win